Footloose, anyone?

A note to the author. The Anne Arundel county board does not have a "student board representative," only a "student board member"--and these are entirely different positions.

I think that to make a determination there needs to be something more than "this is what I heard goes on at dances". Kids will be kids and exaggerate to be the big man on campus. That is a time tested fact. How many reputations have been ruined by "I heard" and now "I know"?

I am not sure we can blame the schools either. To the parents who are outraged, what are they allowing their children to be exposed to at home? Any overtly sexual music on the iPods, sexual themes in television shows, R-rated movies, the Twilight series of books?

Times have changed and I seem to recall some parents pitching a fit when Elvis started to shake his hips too.

If there is sexual activity happening--yes something needs to be done. But before creating any policy, it needs to be based on facts. Maybe some of these teachers and administrators can take some video.

Footloose!

So I take it none of you got the "Leave space for the holy spirit" scoldings from staff like we did. [FULL DISCLOSURE] I obviously went to Catholic school.

Just a programming note. Yes, this needs to be correctly dealt with but for the for the one school board member calling it "sexual harassment" - that's not the proper term. That implies unwanted advances, yet most of the time these type of dances involve willing boys and girls. One particular "grinding" move is when the girl "backs up" and grinds against the boy. This particular move is initiated by girls. Hardly "harassment."

Patch did speak with a parent who was a chaperone at a homecoming dance and witnessed the behavior described by the parent who testified. The parent asked not to be named but is quoted at the end of the article. The problem with shooting video, and even enforcing a no-grinding rule, is that the kids dance in a large circle that hides what is happening in "the inner circle." Chaperones said they had to fight their way through these circles to see what was really happening on the dance floor because it's not always apparent when you're standing on the perimeter.

I remember this type of thing happening when I was in high school, and I graduated in 1998! As the mom of two small children, it just makes me want to hug them a little tighter and enjoy the simplicity of their age. I can't imagine when I have to address issues like this with them!

As a parent who has been subjected first hand to these acts, this is not an exaggeration. Students are indeed grinding in every sense of the word and when reprimanded they stop for a moment and then continue the grinding.

I'm a firm believer that actions speak louder than words, so all of those who are outraged about this issue need to step up to the plate and show up to chaperone the dances. I think that many students would not feel comfortable grinding on their chosen boy/girl directly under a parents/grandparents supervision. Are your children going to 'love' the fact that you are there at their dance? Nope, but you don't have to give away your authority as a parent by giving in to their pleas for you not to chaperone. My daughter wasn't thrilled but also knew that it wasn't up for debate. I tried to give her some space while making certain she understood that if I catch her grinding that it would not be pretty. Picture me demonstrating grinding in front of her and her friends, she'd be mortified!

Another point to consider, change the music. If you only play "music" that has a 'bump & grind' beat then that's what you get. What is so wrong with playing music from the Top 40 charts?

Also, I think that these dances need to be planned more like you would a party that you are hosting. Instead of spending loads of money on candy and sugar laden drinks, put that money towards a photo booth and some actual activities aside from crotch grinding.

I graduated high school back in 2005 from a small school in Pennsylvania. We had a lot of this going on but at that time it was standard. I understand that this type of dancing can be "sexually" explicit but are you going to remove music that is sexually explicit from dances as well? From an article I read on Geneva, IL Patch website a school made this rule starting at one of their homecoming dances. As someone mentioned on here and on their patch article this sounds like a premise to Footloose. A couple of questions I am going to pose are these

1-Would you rather have these kids at a party in the woods?
2-Would you rather have these kids at a house party that is not supervised that has alcohol and this kind of dancing?
3-Would you rather them be in a back seat of a car not just simulating the "sexual" moves?

Please let me be clear. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the proposal of banning grinding or (back to front dancing). I would just like to pose a couple questions from both sides of the argument.

The article I read on Geneva's Patch is located here: http://geneva.patch.com/articles/dance-grinding-grinds-to-a-halt-at-geneva-high-school

I agree with Jennifer that the music really sets the tone and even though grind music is what the kids request, it's important that if the school is "hosting" the event, that they take responsibility and leadership and design the event differently. Otherwise, peer pressure will take over and before you know it your 14-year-old in her fancy party dress or your son in his clip-on bowtie is in a situation he or she does not want or is not ready for.

@Mike Brown-Thanks for sharing the Geneva link. I think that AA County schools should consider some of the points that were illustrated in that article. For example: Censoring the music and the use of wristbands as a tool for tracking the offending dancers.

As for your questions:
No, I would not want my student at a party in the woods or at a unsupervised location with alcohol.
Truthfully, your questions delve further into the realm of how much parents talk to their kids about the challenges they face as young adults. I have no doubt that there are parties being held on a regular basis that have open access to alcohol and opportunities to 'enact' the grinding beyond what we are seeing at school dances.

The simple point of this article here in AA County is directly related to setting down firm boundaries and holding our students accountable for their actions. As a chaperone, I have walked through the 'mosh pit' and asked students to stand up from their grinding position. Some were ashamed and embarrassed, while others were argumentative. I would love to see these dances take a turn with some more constructive dance moves with instruction such as swing or even salsa. Those dances provide a fun atmosphere with enough suggestion to satisfy the rebel within these young adults.

I'm not sure that analogy fits too well. There are rules in my house. So if my son has a few friends over and I say "no alcohol" one could respond "it's better they drink under your supervision then drink in the woods."

Wrong. Every venue gets to set their own rules. It's like my son coming up to me and saying "If you don't allow me and my girlfriend to go into my room and lock the door then we'll just get a motel." That doesn't change the fact that under no circumstances will my son have a girl in his room with the door closed.

The school has ever right to establish and enforce proper rules of conduct during these events.

Do I condone the behavior? Certainly not. But let's be honest. This isn't a new issue by any means. My classmates were grinding in dances in my middle school in the mid 90's like it was nothing. I certainly agree it is inappropriate, but I am dumbfounded as to why something that has been going on for so many years is suddenly getting attention and becoming newsworthy.

This was happening and people were complaining back in the 1970's when I was in HS. Kids will be kids. At least this is happening in public. Would you rather they be in private to do their "grinding" with no clothes on?

I guess we're going to get to the part where I told my parents my girlfriend and I were going to see the movies - hit the movie cinema to buy the tickets (so we had the stubs a proof) then hit....umm...another location.

Anyone from Severna Park witnessed dirty dancing at the high school?..I remember hearing about it happening a few years back- chime in.

As a staff member in a school that has covered these dances, I would like to know where are the parents?. Not there I may add. Most of them don't have time to help. Those few that do can't do it all. The faculty and staff try, but it is hard when that is the in dance. Maybe no dances in the county for a year while they think about how to make this work. Then what we hear is we don't have any events for kids.
What happened to a nice social event for homecoming a small gathering after the football game in the gym. That is what they did years ago. It was nice and the past graduates joined in too. These dances have gotten out of hand.
Stop think and lets rethink how we want these dances and where. Proms are out of hand too. As the economy gets worse these kids will not be able to get the gowns and what ever else. Simple lets get back to basics and teach them to enjoy their youth. Parents stand up and teach your child that life is not about growing up before you have too. There is a time and place for everything, but teaching kids how to act in public well, that is the parents place.Not the Board of Education and not the Admin.

This was common in 1960 too. Yes, I'm OLD. As a "limit government in my life guy" I wonder why PARENTS don't take full responsibility ONLY for their OWN children? Why insist that others (school, chaps, teachers) do it for them? If you think "dirty dancing" is so bad (not a proven thang), stop your children from doing it. Not hard.

I remember my mother telling me about how the principal and teachers at her school dances would break up couples they thought were being too "suggestive" in their dancing. That was 1955. When I was in school in the 1970's, it was still an issue (anyone remember "The Bump?"). I know at my son's high school that the number of students that can attend dances is determined by the number of adult chaperones. They only allow so many students per chaperone. But I do know that "dirty dancing" does go on at these dances. Maybe the solution is for the adults at the function to have more control over how many kids are on the dance floor at any given time. By limiting the number of kids on the floor dancing, you can see more of what is going on. But maybe we just need to ask the kids what can be done. Surprisingly enough, most of the time they know what the issues are and are generally willing to work towards correcting them. These are kids that will soon be off to college and on their own. As parents, we can't make all their decisions or monitor their every move. I say give them an opportunity and the input to fix this issue.

I'll tell ya'll this much - based on my experiences back in HS; don't necessarily be too concerned with the activities on the dance floor. Be a bit more concerned about the couples who leave early:-)

I'll also make a general comment that everyone here knows is true - yet most will be in denial; despite your BEST parenting efforts, your kids are gonna "screw around" in a wide variety of activities as a teen.

My parents were strict - Catholic upbringing, we went to Catholic school from 3rd through 8th grade, church every Sunday, absolutely were raised properly but not harshly. My sister and I had nothing to "rebel" against. So I won't bother everyone with our "escapades" from around 14 through 18 but know this - our parents never knew and will never know. Kids can be very, very, very clever. We were.

Seriously, out of all the "other" things the kids could be getting into dirting dancing is going to be what gets everyone in a frenzy.

I agree with Jennifer's comment on the music. My freshman daughter went to homecoming and came home reporting that it wasn't worth the $20 ticket. The music was all rap and hip hop and the dancing was completely offensive. Unless some changes are made to the music mix and standards of behavior, she's not planning to go again. It's pretty sad really.

There's an appropriate way to behave in public, period. We don't need studies, reports, hearings, etc., to tell us what we already know. A chaperone sees it happening, the lights go on, everybody goes home, the end. When this starts happening consistently, students will get the message.

Diane, I couldn't agree more. This seems to really be much ado about nothing. Rules are set, and obeyed. If the rules are no lewd dancing, then there's no lewd dancing. If someone gets caught they're simply asked to leave the dance.

Are announcements made before the dance starts that go over rules of conduct and that anyone caught breaking the rules will be immediately asked to leave?

The dirty dancing that goes on in our schools is truly indicative of the lower morals our country has been enjoying over the last 30-40 years when to comes to sexual activity. That being said, although its the parents responsibility to teach their kids what's appropriate behavior, once they are inside the school it becomes the BOE's responsibility to keep them safe. Any parent who has ever tried to get inside a school building when school is in session knows how seriously the schools take that charge. No drugs, no alcohol and no inappropriate behavior should ALL be enforced by the administration. If they can discipline a student for bullying or fighting, they can enforce the rules for acceptable dancing at school dances.

The other portion of this is that the parents must back up the school if it happens to be "your kid' that gets disciplined.

I'm not exactly sure really what this article is about; "parents want to outlaw..." Each school sets its own rules of conduct for dances. I'm not sure "outlaw" is the proper term. A simple rule of any dance can be "no vulgar moves including grinding, etc..." and that's simply enforced.

What is the purpose of the school dance, anyway?

To train our kids for clubbing?
To show our kids an "ideal" mating setting,
where a kid's decisions are based on one's own, and another's appearance,
and the impressions of one's crowd,
and where you can't hear or see well to get truly acquainted?

At our middle school, they call it a "social."
(I have a rising fifth grader-- my stomach turns at the thought of those babies grinding!!)
If "socializing" is the real deal, then I agree:
put out some games, organize some activities,
pay a cool dance instructor/dj to lead groups in appropriate moves, and LEAVE THE LIGHTS ON.

How much is a dimmer, really, if you need less than classroom lighting?? Put that in the budget; buy and install a dimmer.

And, I agree: BOE: if my kid is walking onto county property at any time, I expect you to keep the R rated stuff out.

But parents, if you're not satisfied that pseudo-sex isn't happening, even if you just know your kid won't do it, keep your kid from going. Organize an anti-dance, clean event. There was an article in the Voice about that.

Or you take your kid out. Isn't your kid part of YOUR family?

Or are we making our kids our own do-overs, pushing them to be cool because we were or weren't?

So cool as to make you a grandparent??

Additional indication of the growing parenting gap in America. The parents are turkeys and so are their children. Schools cannot be parents.

What goes on in a public place such as a school dance is just the tip of the iceberg for this issue. It all goes back to the student as the individual and the upbringing. Parents and school administrators cannot be always watching. I went to an all girl's high school run by Catholic nuns and we didn't have school dances. However some of my batch mates still managed to get their fun elsewhere(night life). Some ended up pregnant or venereal disease.

What should parents tell their girls(yes, females do set the boundaries and conduct themselves based on how they want to be treated)? Boys react to how girls conduct themselves.
There are two kinds of girls... one for taking home to meet grandma and the other for having fun with then leaving in the street for others to play with. It's your choice who you want to be.

It's very important for children have a goal early in life, it is likely to help them through distractions.

P.S. I am not against dances, I organized youth community dances outside of school to raise funds for community projects and had good clean fun :) .

What is the experience of private schools, such as Spalding and St. Mary's and Severn? Is there pseudo-sex there?

Why not stop the dances for a few years? It is not about socialization. For the girls, It is about buying a new dress, wearing too much make-up, getting manicures and pedicures and not paying for any of it themselves. The boys, In my opinion, just go along for the ride. Parents need to parent, teachers need to teach, Administrators need to rule, and chaperones need to be able to "police"

We don't say: "Kids are gonna cheat on tests, no matter what. Parents should parent better." We don't leave the test answers exposed during test taking. Nope: there are school rules, enforcement and appropriate staffing, all of which are reviewed and reworked as needed. Why is that?

Jamming kids in the dark with loud music is not an opportunity for socialization; it's like leaving the test results out during an exam, prompting decisions that a kid normally wouldn't have chosen. Kids in a crowd are immature people vulnerable to groupthink that shape behavior that they may not have undertaken on their own or at sports practice or even in their own room.

So, we shouldn't say: "Oh, kids are gonna experiment sexually; step aside and let the parents and the schools do their jobs independently."

I do think it is often sexual harrasment as in such a highly charged, peer pressure induced type situation, "consensual choices" are very hard to make or even recognize. Dances should not be cancelled. As one earlier commenter stated, when the chaperones start shuting down the dance because of the inappropriate behavior, the message will get across. Yes, their are many sexually charged songs, TV shows, movies, etc. So, lets make a place that is SAFE for teens to have fun, dance if they want to, without fear of being part of or witnessing overly sexual acts.

Are people missing the quote about "seeing underwear around female students' ankles," or just ignoring it? That's multiple students, too, if you read it correctly.
Did kids in my school grind? Absolutely, from 7th grade up, and I graduated in the mid-90's. Did we pull our pants down? No, I can think of no good reason to do that on a dance floor. It sounds like, unsurprisingly, it's being taken farther than most of us took it as teenagers. Enforce the rules, and if you can't, tell parents that dances WILL be cancelled unless you get more help chaperoning. I also agree with Chet about the moral consistency of young people growing up today. In fact, I just read a study that says they're more conservative than their parents in drug and alcohol use, and sexual activity.

Dirty Dancing and the Board: what was the end of the story?

Grinding at SPHS homecoming dance! Yes there was this past weekend. Patch, what was the end of this story? I now agree with the earlier poster that the DJ and staff could structure the party better with dance activities. I have not seen dirty dancing at weddings and the like! The DJ could demonstrate moves and could even make a game of flashing a spotlight on offending couples.